URGENT - Bahen closure 10 p.m. Wednesday, June 29th for X-raying (fwd)

[Lloyd Smith]

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 12:34:45 -0400
Subject: URGENT - Bahen closure 10 p.m. Wednesday, June 29th for X-raying


Please be advised that the Bahen Centre will be closed from 10 p.m.
Wednesday, June 29th until 8 a.m. Thursday, June 30th as a safety
precaution to facilitate the x-raying of floor slabs related to the
6th floor renovation project.


I am told the entire building must be evacuated since the x-rays
penetrate a distance which approximates 8 stories.


If you are planning to work the evening of Wednesday, June 29th,
please vacate your office, lab etc. by 9:30 p.m. in order to ensure
the complete evacuation of the building.

_____________________________________


Notice of Building Closure

(X-raying Procedures)

Bahen Centre
40 St. George St.
6th Floor Renovation

*Start: 10:00 pm, Wednesday, June 29th , 2005*

*Completion: 8:00 am, Thursday, June 30th , 2005*

The Bahen Centre will be closed for the above time period as a safety
precaution to facilitate the x-raying of floor slabs in preparation for
core drilling related to the 6th floor renovation project.

University of Toronto Police will attend to the exterior of the building
during the closure period to prevent unauthorized access.

[David Warde-Farley]

Post by Lloyd Smith
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 12:34:45 -0400
Subject: URGENT - Bahen closure 10 p.m. Wednesday, June 29th for X-raying
Please be advised that the Bahen Centre will be closed from 10 p.m.
Wednesday, June 29th until 8 a.m. Thursday, June 30th as a safety
precaution to facilitate the x-raying of floor slabs related to the
6th floor renovation project.

I guess the obvious question is...

X-raying floor slabs?!

Also, should we take food out lest it be irradiated?

[Lloyd Smith]

Post by David Warde-Farley
X-raying floor slabs?!

Standard procedure, the construction company wants to know where and if
pipes, rebars, etc. are hidden in the floor slabs in case they have to
cut or drill. (It also helps their lawyers later to point at a shadow
and claim the floor collapsed because of an existing crack, that little
incident with the forklift had nothing to do with it :-)

BTW the construction is coming about because there were air rights for
eight stories up, but only sufficient funds at the time of construction
to fully finish seven. The sixth floor is/was a "shell floor", basically
a placeholder for future expansion.

Post by David Warde-Farley
Also, should we take food out lest it be irradiated?

It won't cause any harm to food. If I had large quantities of undeveloped
camera film on floor 5 or 7 I'd probably be inclined to find somewhere
else to store it for the night, but who uses film these days?

Cheers,
lloyd

[.]

Post by Lloyd Smith

Post by David Warde-Farley
X-raying floor slabs?!
Also, should we take food out lest it be irradiated?

It won't cause any harm to food. If I had large quantities of undeveloped
camera film on floor 5 or 7 I'd probably be inclined to find somewhere
else to store it for the night, but who uses film these days?

I would question using any milk products left in the building. Milk and
cream for coffee and tea should not be left in the building. If it is
discard it. Options on this are mixed but main radiologists recommend
women who are breast feeding should store a few days worth of milk before
certain nuclear medicine procedures. Use the stored milk for feeding,
express and discard fresh milk for a day or two depending on the
procedure. If it is a concern for breast milk then I'd suspect it is a
concern for cow milk.

Post by Lloyd Smith
Cheers,
lloyd
--
CDF SysAdmin

[Jim Clarke]

Post by .
I would question using any milk products left in the building. Milk and
cream for coffee and tea should not be left in the building. If it is
discard it. Options on this are mixed but main radiologists recommend
women who are breast feeding should store a few days worth of milk before
certain nuclear medicine procedures....

Strictly speaking, X-rays are atomic, not nuclear. Some "nuclear medicine
procedures" involve administering unstable isotopes and tracing their
progress through the body; the isotopes take a while to decay or be
excreted. Presumably (though I Am Not A Physician, so take this with a
grain of really stable salt) the radiologists' caution is because they're
worried such isotopes might find themselves included in the milk.

X-rays may be emitted by decaying nuclei, but they're not strong enough
to create unstable nuclei, so they don't make things radioactive. They
do disrupt atomic bonds, so you can wind up with funny chemicals in
you after exposure to X-rays; but no further funny chemicals will be
created by exposure to X-irradiated substances.

[.]

Post by Jim Clarke

Post by .
I would question using any milk products left in the building. Milk and
cream for coffee and tea should not be left in the building. If it is
discard it. Options on this are mixed but main radiologists recommend
women who are breast feeding should store a few days worth of milk before
certain nuclear medicine procedures....

Strictly speaking, X-rays are atomic, not nuclear. Some "nuclear medicine
procedures" involve administering unstable isotopes and tracing their
progress through the body; the isotopes take a while to decay or be
excreted. Presumably (though I Am Not A Physician, so take this with a
grain of really stable salt) the radiologists' caution is because they're
worried such isotopes might find themselves included in the milk.
X-rays may be emitted by decaying nuclei, but they're not strong enough
to create unstable nuclei, so they don't make things radioactive. They
do disrupt atomic bonds, so you can wind up with funny chemicals in
you after exposure to X-rays; but no further funny chemicals will be
created by exposure to X-irradiated substances.

Interesting. When someone mentioned food and x-rays I remembered something
about milk and radiation. I was thinking it had to do with things like
Chernobyl (obviously not x-rays). I did a search and found many links
but all the good links talked in jargon.

So the nuclear medicine would be when you drink the barium solutions or
when they inject you with something?

Is it possible that the milk could go bad due to the x-rays?

[Jim Clarke]

Post by .

Post by Jim Clarke

Post by .
I would question using any milk products left in the building. Milk and
cream for coffee and tea should not be left in the building. If it is
discard it. Options on this are mixed but main radiologists recommend
women who are breast feeding should store a few days worth of milk before
certain nuclear medicine procedures....

Strictly speaking, X-rays are atomic, not nuclear. Some "nuclear medicine
procedures" involve administering unstable isotopes and tracing their
progress through the body; the isotopes take a while to decay or be
excreted. Presumably (though I Am Not A Physician, so take this with a
grain of really stable salt) the radiologists' caution is because they're
worried such isotopes might find themselves included in the milk.
X-rays may be emitted by decaying nuclei, but they're not strong enough
to create unstable nuclei, so they don't make things radioactive. They
do disrupt atomic bonds, so you can wind up with funny chemicals in
you after exposure to X-rays; but no further funny chemicals will be
created by exposure to X-irradiated substances.

Interesting. When someone mentioned food and x-rays I remembered something
about milk and radiation. I was thinking it had to do with things like
Chernobyl (obviously not x-rays). I did a search and found many links
but all the good links talked in jargon.
So the nuclear medicine would be when you drink the barium solutions or
when they inject you with something?

The barium isn't radioactive; it's a radiation absorber so that the
radiologist can get a picture of the parts of you containing the barium.

But there are a bunch of neat things they can do to your insides that
involve putting small amounts of radioactive material in you. Mostly,
adding to your radioactive content isn't a good plan, but sometimes the
information gained -- or even the treatment by the radiation itself --
is worth it. For details, you'd want a better expert than I. (Though I
think I remember that radioactive iodine is used to treat pituitary
disorders where you need to deactivate part of the gland, I think we'd
all be better informed if some passing life-sciences student were to
add a few cents' worth.)

Post by .
Is it possible that the milk could go bad due to the x-rays?

It could be slightly damaged, but I'd bet the amount of chemical
change would be too tiny to encourage "going bad" (whatever that
really is). Again, in the hope of not reducing our collective
knowledge I'd better defer to some hoped-for expert.

[Lloyd Smith]

Post by Jim Clarke
But there are a bunch of neat things they can do to your insides that
involve putting small amounts of radioactive material in you. Mostly,
adding to your radioactive content isn't a good plan, but sometimes the
information gained -- or even the treatment by the radiation itself --
is worth it. For details, you'd want a better expert than I. (Though I
think I remember that radioactive iodine is used to treat pituitary
disorders where you need to deactivate part of the gland, I think we'd

Having worked in thyroid research in a former life, I'll chip in. The
thyroid gland, (located in your neck very near the vocal cords), is the
only gland in the body that uses iodine. As such it is extremely efficient
at sequestering iodine from the bloodstream as iodide, the negatively
charged ion I- (or perhaps I(3)- ).

Technetium (Tc atomic No 43) was the first element to be artificially
produced, and does not occur naturally on Earth. Tc 99m has a half life
of gamma emmission of about 6 hours, and other features that make it
common in diagnostic uses. The thyroid treats pertechnetate ( TcO(4)- )
identical to iodide, (except it can't bind it to the hormone, IIRC).

For thyroid function tests the patient takes a small dose of pertechnetate
and if the thyroid is functioning normally all the radioactivity will be
concentrated in the neck after a suitable time interval. If it remains
disbursed then the thyroid is not functioning properly.

In some diseases including, but not limited to, thyroid cancer the gland
must be destroyed. Rather than surgery close to the vocal cords,
radioisotopes are used (I'm not sure if I 131 or Tc is used in therapeutic
situations). High enough doses are given to kill the surrounding tissue
when the gland concentrates the isotope.

The NIH (National Institutes of Health) has a helpful page that lists
diagnostic radiopharmaceuticals:
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/uspdi/203502.html

Post by Jim Clarke

Post by .
Is it possible that the milk could go bad due to the x-rays?

It could be slightly damaged, but I'd bet the amount of chemical
change would be too tiny to encourage "going bad" (whatever that

IMHO the bacterial growth encouraged by the warming resulting from all
these power outs is much more likely to adversely affect milk products.

Regards,
lloyd

[Adrian Horodeckyj]

Post by .
Is it possible that the milk could go bad due to the x-rays?

I don't think so. Lots of foods are
irradiated with gamma rays, beta
(electron) rays, and x-rays to kill
microbes. (In particular, the little
plastic containers of milk and cream for
coffee; that's why they last forever
without refrigeration.)

-- AMH

[Lloyd Smith]

Post by .
Interesting. When someone mentioned food and x-rays I remembered something
about milk and radiation. I was thinking it had to do with things like
Chernobyl (obviously not x-rays). I did a search and found many links

Among the nasties associated with the disaster at Chernobyl, (and the
potential but fortunately averted one at Three Mile Island), and atomic
bombs is the danger posed by radioisotopes with chemical properties that
mimic elements commonly found in the body. Uncontrolled nuclear reactions
with natural materials will churn out clouds of radioactive elements.

Radioactive iodine is one. and an easy preventative measure is to saturate
your body with "cold" (non-radioactive) iodine before the hot stuff
reaches you, which is why sodium iodide (NaI) tablets are in well stocked
bomb shelters.

Strontium is another. Sr mimics calcium (Ca). If you ingest it, it will
get incorporated into bone tissue. Sr 90 has a half life of 28 years ( I
131 is 8 days). So the isotope will get locked up in your skeleton
emitting away for a good long time. When lactating the Ca comes from the
bones, so if they are laced with Sr the milk from that mammal is going to
be hot for the rest of her life. If clouds of Sr are heading your way it's
doubtful you'd be able to chow down on enough Tums to give the same type
of protection NaI does, but toss a couple of bottles in your fallout
shelter, just in case.

lloyd

[David Warde-Farley]

Post by .
I would question using any milk products left in the building. Milk and
cream for coffee and tea should not be left in the building. If it is
discard it. Options on this are mixed but main radiologists recommend
women who are breast feeding should store a few days worth of milk before
certain nuclear medicine procedures. Use the stored milk for feeding,
express and discard fresh milk for a day or two depending on the
procedure. If it is a concern for breast milk then I'd suspect it is a
concern for cow milk.

Ruh roh, we have a lot of chocolate in the CSSU office...

[Henry Zaccak]

Post by David Warde-Farley

Post by .
I would question using any milk products left in the building. Milk and
cream for coffee and tea should not be left in the building. If it is
discard it. Options on this are mixed but main radiologists recommend
women who are breast feeding should store a few days worth of milk before
certain nuclear medicine procedures. Use the stored milk for feeding,
express and discard fresh milk for a day or two depending on the
procedure. If it is a concern for breast milk then I'd suspect it is a
concern for cow milk.

Ruh roh, we have a lot of chocolate in the CSSU office...

They have all gone bad, but dont worry I'll take them home and dispose
of them safley.

Cheers,
Henry :)

[Mike C]

By no means am I an expert on radiation, but if these 'rays' can
penetrate through 8 levels with thick concrete floors, shouldnt people
in other buildings be evacuated also?

I'm sure the potentially harmful rays can also travel horizontally,
which only need to penetrate two walls to get into Koffler or Galbraith.

[Lloyd Smith]

Post by Mike C
By no means am I an expert on radiation, but if these 'rays' can
penetrate through 8 levels with thick concrete floors, shouldnt people
in other buildings be evacuated also?
I'm sure the potentially harmful rays can also travel horizontally,
which only need to penetrate two walls to get into Koffler or Galbraith.

The source is directional, it will be pointed straight up or straight
down,

Regards,
lloyd

[Adrian Horodeckyj]

This discussion reminds me of "Repo Man"...

J. Frank Parnell: Ever been to Utah?
Ra-di-a-tion. Yes, indeed. You hear the
most outrageous lies about it.
Half-baked goggle-box do-gooders telling
everybody it's bad for you. Pernicious
nonsense. Everybody could stand a
hundred chest X-rays a year. They ought
to have them, too. When they canceled
the project it almost did me in. One day
my mind was full to bursting. The next
day - nothing. Swept away. But I'll show
them. I had a lobotomy in the end.
Otto: Lobotomy? Isn't that for loonies?
Parnell: Not at all. Friend of mine had
one. Designer of the neutron bomb. You
ever hear of the neutron bomb? Destroys
people - leaves buildings standing. Fits
in a suitcase. It's so small, no one
knows it's there until - BLAMMO. Eyes
melt, skin explodes, everybody dead. So
immoral, working on the thing can drive
you mad. That's what happened to this
friend of mine. So he had a lobotomy.
Now he's well again.

Post by Mike C
By no means am I an expert on radiation, but if these 'rays' can
penetrate through 8 levels with thick concrete floors, shouldnt people
in other buildings be evacuated also?
I'm sure the potentially harmful rays can also travel horizontally,
which only need to penetrate two walls to get into Koffler or Galbraith.